System enforcing scorpion inbreeding ~ something like the mantis IGM system ?

Hi guys,

Good day to you, not long ago , in fact a few months back , i get to know a mantis breeder locally back in my country and started slowly in mantis keeping,. somehow from him, i happen to stumble across this IGM thigy.... which got me thinking of inbreeding of scorpion specimens and cross breeding between scorpion specimens.

As we understand inbreeding and cross breeding of specimens might lead to genes disorder , deformed offsprings , infertile specimens , hybrids etc. with normally happen in captive breeding.

For mantis, the hobbist created a system called IGM system to cater and cover over this issues . So far i have not heard of such system on scorpion keeping or tarantula keeping. Would it be good if we have something similar ??? What do u guys think ???


Let me explain more .. This mantis IGM system consits of IGM no. ( example igm no 187 ), the offspring of this speciemns will continue to follow this numbers. therefore when breeders looks for suitable mates for breeding. a check on the number wil be easy and therefore let the breeders know if the mantis's new mate is of the same genes or silbings which make things much easier.

A free hosting web is host on the internet with the IGM nos on it together with some other informations like the orgin , country , source , and generations etc which too serves good purposes for researchers and scientist, not to mention breeders. it is sort of like a family tree i should say..
A small discussion was brough up back in my land, but so far nothing concrete came out so far.

As mentioned above , so far i have not stumble across any of such system on scorpions and see it as a good topic to discuss

Let hear some views and comments regarding this C&C welcomed

best regards
LEster

I thougth inbreeding with scorpion is just fine. Maybe thats why my c. bicolor produced 13 slings last season coz the male is her father

Tattoo wrote:

I thougth inbreeding with scorpion is just fine. Maybe thats why my c. bicolor produced 13 slings last season coz the male is her father

Hi sir tattoo,

Well many said the first few gen of inbreeding in scorpion are still okie but the notice on the decline in brood numbers , and other genes disorder would follow up after that . personally i wasn't very sure on this too .. As for mantis , in breed would produce infertile egg . Breeders sometimes source for different blood line to mantain healthly off spring stock.

But due to the small numbers of scorpion hobbist in the hobby, captive breed stock are quite limited not to mention WC stock. Inbreeding sometimes can't be avoided. I am not against inbreeding or whatever but just tot of maybe a system like the IGM thigy could solve this problem.

As the hobby grow and with this new system, buyer would know the scoprion specimen they are buying off the internet or from the seller which made breeding much easier if they are sourcing different bloodline.. it would very much hold certain degree of information for researcher , breeders . monitoring would be studyed on the status of certain specimens in captive status with just a few clicks away,

Well, above are just some of my tots.. would like to know others scorpion hobbist views and tots too


Cheers
Lester

I have some green and brown mantis but never been breed coz i dont have a male unlucky to catch one.

so u think 1st gen is ok? Hope so... My point in inbreeding is to produce a 2 tail scorp. I wish i can produce 1. Have you seen two tailed scorp?

about the records thru the internet is kinda difficult. I think you cannot avoid inbreeding. For example boy1 buy 1 scorp to me and boy2 buy 1 scorp too. Both became 1 female and 1 male. The prob is they didnt know their scorp came in the same seller. In your own opinion that idea is great. The prob is do buyers spent a little time to review the records? HmMm... maybe a few will. I wish we can set that idea of yours to have a good lines. Very nice

Tattoo wrote:

I have some green and brown mantis but never been breed coz i dont have a male unlucky to catch one.

so u think 1st gen is ok? Hope so... My point in inbreeding is to produce a 2 tail scorp. I wish i can produce 1. Have you seen two tailed scorp?

about the records thru the internet is kinda difficult. I think you cannot avoid inbreeding. For example boy1 buy 1 scorp to me and boy2 buy 1 scorp too. Both became 1 female and 1 male. The prob is they didnt know their scorp came in the same seller. In your own opinion that idea is great. The prob is do buyers spent a little time to review the records? HmMm... maybe a few will. I wish we can set that idea of yours to have a good lines. Very nice

hmmm for inbreeding, i would very much want to avoid as much as i could. Not much physical signs are show during the first few gen of inbreeding.. but the offsprings slowly show after a few gen.

Well so far i was't lucky enough to produce a 2 - tail scoprions from my breeding project . but i would to have one if i have the chance .LOl. it was be a very rare items.. i have seen people who are very lucky to get 2 tail scorpions and sold them a rocket high prices. but again. due to genus disorder or someother reasons., most of the 2-tail scorpion i heard and seen of never much made it to adulthood and carry on the next gen.

It would sure take some effort in maintain the scorpion IGM system to reduce inbreeding but so far as mentioned nothing concrete have been layed and mostly are discussion. IF possible , i would like to suggest for a modified system of the exisiting IGM system which the germans are using . Objective is to be as simple as possible and least work to maintain. Well ... as for using of the "system" it will be totally on free will of both hobbist , seller or buyer , breeder etc.

Example : of the above quotation , if the seller is using the "system" , buyer would know from then when they purchase.

Likewise mentioned, i hope this would be carry out one day if possible on a free will basic. System will not reflect only information of the scorpion the buyer is getting but also seller is having his scorpion sold out with sort of "ID" with it. Buyer with intention to breed or other tots would start to think twice before getting too as this id would sort of of ensure the scorpion to a "better" degree. or things like that.

Well again.. i do have to agree with you sir tattoo, many a time it will still depends on the end user if they are keen on the system.. i am alright with both actually but tot with this it would be better .. lol..



p/s : would like to ask if there is smilies no 3 ??? lol with scorpion pics in it ..

If someone can create and share it for free why not use that method right? Which will lessen inbreeding. Is there a software to record it and upload to websites?

in the smiley part u made me laugh wil try to figure that out

Tattoo wrote:

If someone can create and share it for free why not use that method right? Which will lessen inbreeding. Is there a software to record it and upload to websites?

in the smiley part u made me laugh wil try to figure that out

Hi sir tattoo,

actually there is a mantis version online currently and i am working out on a draft scorpion version currently. It is more or less about the same, containing the more important information only to make it more simple and look less complicated. Still working out the fine details on it lol.. hmm why not i post it up here once it is ready toseek for advises and comments ?

Loading up the net would be easy via a freehosting site, the only part hard is the updating of the page when new request of numbers come in.
which i am also thinking of a simple way to do it , currently under testing to see if it is workable .. well bascially the success of this program woul dvery much depend on what you have mentioned

lol.. can't wait to see new scoprion ecomotions

lol

Ok hope you figure that out and make it work

Tattoo wrote:

Ok hope you figure that out and make it work

yes lol.. will update here once i sort everything out

Very educational and entertaining. . . s98432512. . . very well detailed sets of informations and facts from a resident of malaysia?

MJKC wrote:

Very educational and entertaining. . . s98432512. . . very well detailed sets of informations and facts from a resident of malaysia?

Hi

good day to you yes i am from malaysia

nice infos. as is. . . keep it up sir. . . ur great. . .

Hi guys,

i apologize for the delay in this discussion, as recently i have been quite busy with my currently work.
So far i have draft a copy of the data list which is very much alike of the mantis list.
And i need some help and seek interested parties that would like to be part of the program,

i seek comments , suggestion and advises with regards to this issue.

SO for now ... who are in with me ??? on the IGS thigy ?? lol..

currently in search for ideas and suggestions for the following :
1) Name for this system
2) Interested scorpion breeder to be in part of the team, will have to uphold some updating of data and stuff.
3) ideas and comments ti improve the drafts
4) Permission of kind admin or mod to hold this data in the forum

btw please see attahed of the draft copy.

best regards
s98432512

Draft copy.

is that a program? so after recording all the data it can be uploaded to a site?

_Tattoo_ wrote:

is that a program? so after recording all the data it can be uploaded to a site?

hmm actually not reali a software program but done in excel file .. and save in pdf.

updating of the excel file and onto the site say maybe once a month.. actual details to be discussed ..and have to be firm further ..

important information for both breeders and buyer who wanted to breed can be recieved

originally posted by spayrow

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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this is very interesting. while there's no proof that inbreeding in scorpions and tarantulas do have an effect, there's been a continued decrease in size of common specimens through the years. while its no proof, i think its safe to assume that inbreeding may have played a part in that. i'd be very interested if you ask me. problem is, a lot of hobbyists don't really care about such things.

ok sana kung meron nito para sa iPhone para mas madali ang update

We actually downloaded the program yesterday and have started on documenting information about our pets. But it might take a month or more for me to finish the data base. I should've seen this earlier and life could've been easier. Thanks for the link though!

IMHO about this topic this will be very hard to implement since there are specimens that are very rare and few pairs are available for breeding. so a hobbyist will be forced to inbreed the species.

another situation is when a seller imports some new species, usually captive bred specimens most of it comes from 1 brood and will be distributed nationwide. so tracking this specimens will be very difficult.

Another topic that i read in AB is that there are species in the hobby that only started with 2 wild caught male and female. so inbreeding cannot be avoided in this situations.

Boss.. The link is not opening.. It's a dead link..